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93 Responses to “More Personal Replies from Psychologist About Relationships with Losers”

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    Thanks, Greg for this update. I visit Dr. Caver message post weekly to see and learn about his comments concerning other people’s Experiences with their Controller/loser. Because of Dr. Carver’s paper on this issue. I have learned why my relationship of 17 years ended the way that it did. Dr. Carver’s paper explained to many of us in laymen’s terms the traits of our pass love ones that had personality disorders. Giving us hope and understanding why many of the heartaches that we experienced and endured happen the way that it did. Why when we tried so hard to make our relationship work and then to just wake up one day to see that it didn’t. Because of Dr. Carver’s work, it gave me a chance to learn more about personality disorders. Opening a door to learn about NPD. Why she did so many things that she did and at the time didn’t make any sense to me. Trying so hard to keep my relationship alive with her but now know it was doom from the beginning. Dr. Carver, my oldest son once told me “Dad, she’s crazy, and don’t you get it”. This was before she left. Dr. Carver, Josh knew that before I did. It makes me ashamed that he could see his mother better then I could. I guess love is blind! I love her very much Dr. Carver and tried so hard to help us. But I couldn’t, I see that now. You can’t make people change, they must want that for themselves. I just thank god that I can feel empathy for a stranger, co-workers, family and friends!

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    James, it sounds like Dr Carver’s ideas really helped crystallize some of your own observations and experiences — like it suddenly just ‘clicked’? (Although everyone’s experiences are obviously different, so many people have said something roughly similar to what you’ve described — about it all ‘falling into place’ in light of Dr Carver’s article — that I can’t help but think he’s really on to something important.)

    You’ve described yourself as feeling ashamed that your son could see things differently/sooner than you did. From what you’ve said, though, you were trying very hard to allow the relationship to thrive. I.e., that was your top priority at the time. To to my mind, anyway, that makes it not very surprising at all that you saw her through different eyes than your son did.

    In any case, thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings on this, both here and in the previous thread!

    All the best,

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    Deborah Carpenter

    I have just really stopped dating a loser. It was the worst 5 years of my life. I am seeing a counsler.Also reading anything I can get my hands on. Thanks for the help. He was all the bad you had said.

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    I was married to a Loser for over 20 years. I was quite mentally ill when we married and continued to struggle just to function at times. Clinical Depression, Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder, PTSD, SAD, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome,unrelenting thoughts of suicide, etc, all well diagnosed yet not so well treated were all a part of my daily life. They also became my self identity.

    I sought treatment and therapy so I could be the best wife and mother I could be. I got very little genuine support from my then husband, nothing more than lip service most of the time.

    I continued to search for help and after years of prayer I experienced Transactional Analysis. This was the breakthrough for me. Over the next 2 years I changed my beliefs on the deepest levels.

    That is when life went from not great to torment. It seems it was at that time my then husband believed I was abandoning him, betraying him and my vows to be with him forever. I assured him if I could overcome mental health issues, he certainly could and then we could go forth in this life as a truly healthy couple and family. He spent the next 10 years pretending to work on his issues, but it was apparent to everyone it was not genuine.I did not want to see it. I worked diligently to find some kind of way to reconcile my new winner way of thinking and being an enabler. It did not work.Though it was hell on earth being with him, the thought of being without him was so overwhelming I could not even consider it.Our home was full of chaos, misery, anger, resentment. He with held affection from everyone, except our 5 year old.

    One day he decided to start seeing a 17 year old girl he worked with and our marriage was over.Though the girl dumped him pretty quickly, he still moved out and began a whole new life. I,with the Lord’s help, did survive and actually began to find greater health, started to make friends (I was a stay at home Mom for 20 years and pretty isolated), and got a great job where I am encouraged.

    I still wanted him back despite all the new good things in my life and how horrible life with him had been. Looking for some explanation I came upon this article and read on to the article about Stockholm Syndrome. That also allowed me to pull out some old TA tools and delve even deeper into why I still longed to have him back.

    I have 3 questions for you, if I may:
    1)How long do you think a recovery such as mine may take? I do have a therapist (which is why I am as far along as I am.) I don’t want to long for my exhusband forever. I want my heart to catch up with reality! Since he left me and I did not experience my detachment from him the way you advised, how do I detach now? Any suggestions?
    2)When I met my exhusband he was drinking and doing drugs. I told him I would not continue to date him and he stopped that day. We were together for 21 years and in that time he never drank, hung out at bars, etc. He became a Christian and for the most part (other than being a Loser)led a Christian life. Once he left me he headed straight for the good life of lots and lots of women, drinking, etc. He took up with a very young crowd and bragged shamelessly how much happier he was and younger,too, often to our 2 teenage daughters. It was as if he was thumbing his nose at everything we had held as valuable as a couple and was flaunting his new “freedom”. Can a Loser just change lifestyles overnight? If they do, how would you know who they really are, i.e., the teenage/middle aged drunk or the family man? Who is he?
    3)Once he did see I was having success in my life, he dumped his girlfriend for a new one who works where I do. He makes comments about work, wears our coorporation shirts when he drops off our child after visitation, he has stopped paying child support, taken our child from school without my knowledge, threatened to find a way to take the home he gave me away, etc. It seems pretty obvious he is trying his old bullying tactics.My therapist asked me to keep a log and I have.I have brought down the level of contact to only having contact per visitation. All other contact right now is being done through the court system. I don’t feel like I am on the back burner as much as I feel he wants to play these old games even if in altered roles, having the best of both worlds… a new honeymoon stage for him and his new girlfriend and all the ugly of who he really is with me and his children. Is this possible?

    I apologize for the length. I am just trying to figure things out so I can proceed with the life I want for myself and children without all those ghosts from the past hindering me. Thank you

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    Christine, just my two cents. I too kept a Journal on the events after my NPD left the children and me. I started it to keep my sanity but later learned that I might be able to use it in court. Some say we should write it, not use a computer which can be edited and easily changed. I guess when writing things in your own handwriting it gives the journal more creditability. Wish I knew before hand. But keeping notes on events, time, phone calls, etc.. Help us in our minds and in court!

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    Oh, one another thing Christine, Thanks for sharing with us your success in therapy, I too had depression issues and am a PTSD. But years of therapy and treatment as well as some very good people in my early (my treatment started when I was only 5 years of ages) years helped me to live with my disorder. To learn to over come them! Thanks again.

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    Dear Christine: Recovery is a process of detachment, rebuilding your self-esteem & lifestyle, and maintaining your distance. Is sounds like you’ve done much of that already. In question #2, a Loser is a social and emotional cameleon, changing for their purposes, not for those around them. They become who they need to be for their personal interests. If needed, they will intimidate and assault others, then become remorseful and sorry because they feel both approaches are the proper strategy for a given situation. For #3, he’s probably involved in another romantic scam, being the supporter his new girlfriend needs yet continuing to torment you and the children. Keep your contacts through the court. Remember, he feels justified to punish you and will bully, not pay child support, or do anything he feels entitled to do. He hasn’t changed…it’s just a new situation. Dr. Carver

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    Dr Carver
    This person sounds so much like my ex that it is scary. After she left not only I but my children and family were asking ourselves “who is this person”. how can they put on a new (if that is what it is?) personality, new lifestyle so quickly? She (ex) never would talk about herself to me. Could never show any emotions for her children or I. It’s like we love a stranger! That part of a loser I will never understand! And I guess they don’t care what type of person they are with. I just find out the her new boyfriend was busted for “Possess Drug Paraphernalia” and his court date is on 01-08-07! This is really scaring me, What’s next???

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    Losers have more investment in themselves and their goals than those of the family, partner or children. They are self-absorbed and seek their needs first. Losers invest only a small percent of their emotions and life in others, creating the “shallow emotions” I descibe in the article. By doing this, they can detach and move-on quickly, even to the point of leaving their children. While healthy parents often say “I’d give my life for my child!”, the Loser will leave and detach from child if it’s in their best interests. It’s like making a small financial investment. You can affort to “write it off” if it doesn’t work out or if you see a better deal.
    As you worry, these shallow emotions also allow the Loser to return to previous victims – IF it’s in their best interests. Sadly, that return doesn’t mean they’ve changed, only that they need something (place to stay, $, etc.). As for what’s next, be prepared for anything. Dr. Carver

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    Dr Carver:

    Thank you for your insight. I wish I could say that your words gave me hope. But I know you are telling me what I need to hear. Plus I know it to be true and feel it depth down inside of my heart. The more I learn about his type of personality disorder, I more I know that any clinical help will be very hard for her to get! I loved her very much and hate to see her or anyone go thru life with so little hope or help and knowing that as she ages, she has a very good chance of getting worst in her condition. Dr. I can’t help her, I can’t even talk to her anymore. To much hurt, pain and regret on both sides of this relationship, not to mention the need to protect our children from her! I don’t understand why the Narcissist personality disorder refuses to get help? The I’m ok, you’re not ok drama repeats and they don’t learn from their decisions! In short the more I learn about this type of personality disorder, the more hope I lose! My NPD is 38 years of age, I saw in an another web site on NPD that depression (chronic) can became clear at the age of forty plus. I was depressed in our relationship many times but never saw any sign of depression in her! Which I never understood because of all the trouble we had experience in our life because of her lack of concern for our warfare. Even my children knows that she never gave anything to anyone in our family, her time, money, emotional support and love, etc…. I know now to never love anyone or thing that can’t love me back. I also learned that children that were raise by NPD parent’s will sometime become Narcissist as well and if not are somewhat “bent”. Connecting with other NPD’s trying to somehow learn to “find the key to love this type of person and have them love you back, setting themselves up to be hurt again and again”. I believe that because of the many years I experienced in therapy and the good Christian people that I met in my life helped me to overcome my own personality disorders. I was a child that grew up as a ward of the state and therapy was mandated by state law. My father was a single parent but unfit to care for his children. I loved my father very much but believe that he too was a NPD or had some other type of personality disorder. Being an alcoholic didn’t help! My mother left us at a very early age (5 children in all). Because we were raised in foster homes or other children type institution we didn’t have a lot of contact with our father. I saw my mother at age 15, she too was “not a nice person” very Narcissist in nature! And also an alcoholic. I had no real relationship with her and didn’t want one. I never lived with my mother and by choice I stayed as a ward of the state until age 18. After reviewing my family history it became clear why I was able to stay in a relationship with a NPD for so long! Not being an NPD myself, but still “bent”. Trying to love someone that can’t love you back! I can only thank God, that I had so much support from other people that gave me a chance to live a somewhat normal life. I learned how to love people, trust them and allow them to be as human as I am. No one is perfect, we all make mistake, but if we can learn from them (mistakes) then we don’t have to repeat them! I only pray that my children will somehow learn from this and get the chance to become emotionally healthy adults. I will not make the same mistakes as my parents did, I will keep up with our therapy and reach out for help to raise my children along if I have too. Dr. I want my children to grow up as physically and emotional healthy adults. I believe that family, friends, well trained professorial people and God will help me reach my goal! I want the best possible life for them and myself. I know there is help out there for people that want to change and improve their life’s. But the key is that first we need to ask for it and accept the fact that none of us are perfect! Thank you for allowing me to post this on your web site, I just wanted people to know that There is help out there and all we need to do is ask for it!…..

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