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Comments on “Psychologist’s Description of “The Loser” in Relationships Rings True”, Page 9

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89 Responses to “Psychologist’s Description of “The Loser” in Relationships Rings True”

  1. 81

    Dear Richard: Relationships typically start out with folks being agreeable and supportive. The relationship is often based on the social, emotional and lifestyle situation present at the time we meet. When changes occur in the relationship, folks often reconsider their investment and decide the “deal” is no longer what they want. This is a normal part of dating. Relationships in young adults often experience this problem as a partner may not be sure what they want in life. A carefree college student may be totally comfortable working part-time and enjoying nature – but five years later that won’t pay the utilities for a partner and children.

    Another major problem is that some folks are misleading about what they want. When dating, some people tell you what they think you want to hear. As the relationship continues, their real goals may emerge, often ending the relationship.

    I would recommend working with a counselor to sort out your situation. The end of a relationship often doesn’t need an obsessive fault-finding analysis. Situations, people, and goals change over time. There may be no Loser here at all – just a relationship that didn’t work out for a variety of reasons.
    Dr. Carver

  2. avatar image
    bill smith
    82

    I am dating a woman who has Dissociative Identity Disorder. I am now five months into the relationship. I started noticing different alters and switching. I am noticing dishonesty. Sexual behavior on her part has stopped. She doesnt even like to be kissed. She doesnt know she has DID. She says she has anxiety, panic, pain, and all the symptoms of DID. I know she has it…I am a school psychologist, so I started noticing signs and symptoms of DID. Problem #1 She is mentally ill. Problem #2 I actually like most of her alters, Problem #3 I currently started to not trust her because she used my credit card first with my permission….and then used it again without my permission and the company called me to verify an order. She made excuses about forgetting…. and maybe another alter was out who did the ordering. Being in the helping profession…I know she is ill. I also know that DID treatment…even if a person is willing takes 6 years plus of psychotherapy. I also know that most of her alters are not capable of experiencing love. So, with that said… part of me wants to end the relationship…and part of me wants to help her see that she has DID….another part of me wants and knows that I need to protect myself from her….and transform my current relationship status with her into a friendship where we have very limited contact…
    I believe that I can accomplish the friendship status successfully. I know that I would rather be her friend than her enemy. Like someone said earlier…she will find another person to manipulate using sex initially and deception throughout.

  3. 83

    Dear Bill: Your professional training is getting you into trouble. Dissociative Indentity Disorder (DID) is extremely rare. However, folks who manipulate, steal from others, use deception, are dishonest, are sexually manipulative, and deny responsibility for their behavior are fairly common. They’re called con-artists. In truth, you’ve only dated five months and she’s already abusing YOUR credit cards without telling you. In DID, there is no known separate personality that specializes in credit card theft. Those alters you notice are different “ploys” in an effort to determine what style works best with you.

    If you like some of her pseudopersonalities or alters, she’s most likely a personality disorder, probably histrionic personality with a side order of criminality. These folks are social chameleons. If you’re in the helping fields, they become “clinically interesting” (while stealing your saving account). They often use sex to initially “hook” their victim, then quickly return to their agenda which isn’t a relationship, but the need to use or manipulate the victim.

    You need to protect yourself better. She’s already got your credit card numbers. Your honest interest in helping her will be viewed as a sign you are “ripe” for manipulation. She’s stolen from you twice and you’re still there…making excuses for her. This is how people get in deep trouble.

    You should detach, protect yourself (cancel your cards if she has the nunbers), and keep your distance. You might want to read the entries in this log as they describe how Losers and con-artists drain their victims/partners emotionally and financially. Credit card theft early in a relationship tells you this isn’t true love…it’s something else.
    My two cents….Dr. Carver

  4. avatar image
    Kati
    84

    Dear Dr Carver
    Another long post from a damaged victim I’m afraid Dr Carver. I’ll apologise in advance to your readers, but I need some advice!!
    I met my loser at 17. We have been together for 20 yrs and have 2 children. During the last 5 years we have been separated 3 times, the last time was final, due to an affair, which I discovered just 6 weeks after arriving in our new country for a “fresh start”. (Well his fresh start included an affair with an “x” penthouse pet, 12 years older than me, who our new apartment was across the road from!) My divorce goes to court next Wednesday.

    I had just started undergoing counselling due to issues with my youngest childs mental health, when I discovered the affair, but it was through your fantastic forums and articles that I have been able to FINALLY understand the guilt I constantly feel over this relationship. I could identify 17 of the loser traits in my husband. My 11 year old daughter identified 20.

    Recently when I kicked him out for the final time, my daughters and I cried with relief, and they made me promise to NEVER let there father back into my life again. At 11 and 8 years, they have a better grip on this whole situation than I do, and are much less emotionally invested. My marriage took a huge dive for the worse once children were on the scene. He couldnt handle the devotion I gave them, and I found being a Mum the ultimate career.

    However, I am now faced with a challenge, and I want to handle this situation the best way, to sort it not just for now, but to make sure I minimise any future hold or power.

    Prior to this final event, we had decided to shift countries for a “fresh start” (which I realize was him wanting to cut off ALL my support once and for all.) I was cautious, and retained my home, leasing it out. My loser sold his home to fund our shift and gave me $20k from the sale, to reduce the mortgage owed on MY property. There was no contract and legally it is deemed a “gift.” He has funded the shift and re-set up costs in our new land, and I have retained all the new furniture and the family car.

    Once I discovered the affair, I think he assumed I couldnt kick him out due to the fact I’m not resident here or entitled to any parenting payments. (Previously when I was on my own, I worked part time for my own design company from home so I could be a fulltime Mum and support us, but here, the living costs were much higher, and I didnt have the client base to re-start my company.) Initally, we both believed I was trapped. Thanks to counselling, I lasted only two weeks in that environment, then I packed his things and kicked him out. Sadly I havent been able to afford any more counselling since, but your site has filled the gap tremendously. I have just sold my home back in NZ to have some way of financially supporting me and my children for the next couple of years, while I figure out how I can support us long term. The money is due next week.

    Now, he knows the house sold, and is demanding this $20,000. His affair has ended and money has become his focus. But, as he quickly went through his savings setting up here, I needed to draw approximately half of that money back down to fund HIS work vehicle, HIS mobile phone and HIS work tools. I also paid part of the bond on his new apartment and paid the divorce costs. All up worth about $10k.

    I told him I legally owe him nothing, as we had a financial separation in 2005 and there was no new contract for the $20k. But that I would buy the family car off him for a fair amount, say $10k! (The family car is in his name and I need to get it changed to mine…so I figured this was a good way to sort it out for both of us.) I have stuck to my postion and used a no nonsense, business like, take it or leave it manner…. as you suggested. In fact I also suggested that if this didnt suit him, he take me to court, and get it sorted properly, knowing it would take months and that he NEEDS this money now! (He was an alcoholic, and is back drinking again, and always over spends extravagently. I have often rescued him from debts in the past….which of course gets thrown in my face later as “I was going to be fine, it wasnt THAT bad!'”)

    So far, sounds like a plan! But I am concerned that once this money is spent, he will come back to the “Slot Machine” telling me things again, like how much I ripped him off,etc. THEN taking me to court to get it! I dont believe it would stand up in court, but the threat of such action and the “emotional memories” oh no, the very thought of this makes me feel…. oh you know what I want Dr, I just want him and this nightmare to go away!!

    However, its such a torment also for me to be a “mean” person and the thought of him not having ANY money…well it just makes me feel nasty! I would like him to be able to buy a bed, a fridge and re-set himself up!!! Then I think, perhaps I should just give him the full $20,000 now and be done with it FOREVER, small price to pay for freedom…. but would that really stop him? I could pay that and he still come back and say he paid for the shift etc. and I still owe him more! And actually, I cant really afford to do that, its the kids that will pay, when we run out of savings and they have to go into after school care cause Mums working full time.

    I recognize contact is damaging. Already he is leaving the “Sweet” stage the guilt of the affair created, and guilting ME out constantly over my downfalls as a person and the damage I caused HIM over the last 20 years. Sometimes I feel like just giving him EVERYTHING I have, if only he signs a contract to leave this new country and NEVER EVER come back into our lives again!!! But I have to remember that I have two children to raise on my own, no job …and no prospects of being able to work for quite sometime, (as my 8 year old suffers separation anxiety so bad from our horrible home situation, she is undertaking therapy, so that I wont have to stay at school all day, everyday, with her, for the rest of her school life!) I cant go giving my savings all away! But there must be a way to retain some power over my future contact with him in this situation!
    How do I “play him” at this one?

    Like everyone else here, thank you so so much for helping.
    Its so hard to for us to see the trees because this dark forest keeps getting in the way!!!!
    Thanks for any thoughts,
    K80

  5. 85

    Dear Kati: During separations, divorce, or even temporary break-ups, Losers and Abusers pressure their partner with demands, guilt, obligations, emotional memory, threats, phone calls, email, etc. This social and emotional pressure is actually a strategy. If someone calls you every ten minutes you’re likely to give them money to stop calling. He’s hoping the pressure will cause you to surrender the money he wants. Sadly, giving him the money won’t make him go away. He’ll still feel the need to harass you and pressure you – at times using the children as an excuse. Abusers often call the children, talk for 3 minutes, then ask to speak to “Mum”. The mother then receives 30 minutes of harassment over the phone. Children are often used as the ticket to abuse the spouse.

    Your current strategy is a mix of legal and personal. He has quickly identified that some monies are viewed as issues for personal discussion – or should we say subject to guilt? Your best strategy is to remind him of the ongoing legal situation and how you will make no further “deals” without the advice of the court or legal counsel. As long as he feels YOU are making decisions about what he receives – you’ll be pressured. I think you’ll find the courts would want you to focus on taking care of yourself and the children.

    Keep in mind that everything will still be your fault. Don’t try to make him understand your point of view. He only views those discussions as an opportunity to manipulate you further. Focus on being stable, legal, and all business. This is your best strategy to survive this storm. Dr. Carver

  6. avatar image
    Linda
    86

    Dr. Carver,

    Just a quick update– My slot machine has been permanently disabled!!! I’ve been doing a lot of research on sociopaths and I have found a lot of strength in the knowledge I’ve gained about this disorder. It’s been an eye-opening experience to read about the techniques they use while he’s still trying to use them on me. I am still receiving daily text messages and voicemails from him and he’s used every trick in the book to get me to respond. I intend to have my number changed right before I leave on my trip but I’ve left the number active for now because I felt I would at least have some warning if he was coming to the house. I changed the locks last Friday and I haven’t responded to his messages in over a week now. Everything I’ve read has said that the only way to be free of a sociopath once and for all is to simply cut them out of your life completely and that’s what I’ve done. I was lucky enough not to have any permanent ties to this man so I think my journey is a simple one compared to many other’s I’ve read and I intend to remain strong and get out of this mess once and for all. Thank you so much!! With sincere respect Linda

  7. 87

    Dear Linda: Congrats. I had a sociopath/criminal tell me his way of identifying folks to target for manipulation and abuse. He said “If I can get them to smile…I can get something out of them.” As you discovered, any payoff in the form of a kind word, returned text message/call, etc. sets you up for another 10-20 calls. You’ve got to be unplugged and all business. Keep researching and enjoy your new life. Dr. Carver

  8. 89

    Hi folks,

    After this new thread for comments on Dr Carver’s Are You Dating a Loser? article received nearly 90 comments in less than 2 months, we had to open a new discussion thread.

    Dr Carver is still available in that new thread, and also don’t forget that he now has his own regular column here at CounsellingResource.com, called Ask the Psychologist, where Dr Carver will be fielding questions on all things psychological. So if you’d like some feedback from our new Consulting Clinical Psychologist, just head on over to his new section!

    All the best,
    Greg

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